I was surprised by how unpleasant this tragedy is, I am having a hard time finishing it. It starts with Ajax’s near and dear putting him on suicide watch, then dealing with his suicide, ugh. Then to make matters worse the Atreides say they can’t bury the body. Didn’t they learn anything from the experience of Creon and Antigone a generation before? Ugh!
“But you accept from me this shield of careful work,
my son, from which you take your name, Eurysaces,” footnote says “(Eurysaces, the name of the child, literally means broad shield. Ajax's shield, his most famous weapon,” Kind of follows the argument that the names of the sons are epithets of their father”
“Achilles lived to be the one to grant his prize of arms, rewarding strength and valour, no other man but I would have laid hold “ The irony that Achilles would arbitrate over the disposal of his own armor . And a clear reminder to to the audience that this is all mote, Neoptolemus will show up shortly to claim his father’s armor.
my son, from which you take your name, Eurysaces,” footnote says “(Eurysaces, the name of the child, literally means broad shield. Ajax's shield, his most famous weapon,” Kind of follows the argument that the names of the sons are epithets of their father”
“Achilles lived to be the one to grant his prize of arms, rewarding strength and valour, no other man but I would have laid hold “ The irony that Achilles would arbitrate over the disposal of his own armor . And a clear reminder to to the audience that this is all mote, Neoptolemus will show up shortly to claim his father’s armor.
ODYSSEUS; Well, may someone who’s a friend of yours speak his mind and still remain a colleague the way he was before?
AGAMEMNON; You should speak out. I would scarcely be thinking properly if I said no. “ Imagine if Agamemnon offered this same courtesy to Achilles
TEUCER “Noble Odysseus, I have nothing but praise for what you’ve said. You have done so much to disprove my fears. Of all the Argives, you were the one who was his greatest enemy, and yet you are the only one to stand by him, to lend a helping hand. For when he died “ Odysseus is the hero? Wow!
Notes from Ruth Schodel’s commentary on Sophocles1
“(Ajax) is the only major hero who is never
directly helped by a god.”
“He
also delivers one of the most moving prayers in Greek literature. Supernatural
darkness overs the battlefield, so that Ajax, defending the body of dead
Patroclus, cannot find anyone to deliver a message to Achilles, and cries; “Father
Zeus, save the sons of the Achaeans from this clouds /And make clear air,
permit us to see. Kill us in the lights,
if that is your will.”
“Gods,
however, generally intervene only in accordance with human character... (however) it is notable that he tried to
take his revenge at night, by craft –a method which violated his own nature.”
“The
scene in which Ajax bids farewell to his son (545-77) is obviously modeled on the
famed passed in the sixth book of the Iliad in which Hector says good-bye to
his wife and son. Each detail is a
careful contrast.”
Schodel says that “Athena’s
anger becomes mysterious.” I mean
really what sort of eternal divine ire “will
only last one day.”? I think the
play tries way too hard to blame hubris for what happens to Ajax
Okay, I am not too convinced about theories on
god/hero antagonism. I can’t see it as a
generalization and the evidence seem to be picked too selectively, until now.
“Ajax
see his death as reconciliation with the gods…it also solves the gods’
hostility…In some sense, death renders him sophron and thus, perhaps loved instead
of hated by the gods…death is a reconciliation with the gods and that prophetic
speech is a characteristic of those near death, so that he is almost incapable
lf saying anything which is not, in some sense, true. The riddle of his words is akin to the
riddles of an oracle.”
“Ajax in his madness
calls Athena his “ally” in the prologue, the irony is highly complex; by no
means his ally in the form he thinks.
She is in fact his ally in rousing the pity of Odysseus.” Which suggests to me that in fact the play
is all about Odysseus, the savoir of the piece and the one experiencing
personal growth. Also Odysseus is often
thought of as the “Everyman”. So maybe
we are all intended to learn to feel pity for Ajax.
“for
most, friendship is an unsafety harbor”(682-83) points to the future friendship
of Odysseus – he will find a harbor in a friend he thought an enemy…Odysseus
also finally bestows on Ajax the praise for lack of which he died; he states
that after Achilles, he was “the best of the Greeks.” (1340-41)”
_______________________________________
1 Twayne Publisher,
Boston 1984, Chapter Two, Against Time and Chance: Ajax
“ The irony that Achilles would arbitrate over the disposal of his own armor . And a clear reminder to to the audience that this is all mote, Neoptolemus will show up shortly to claim his father’s armor.
ODYSSEUS; Well, may someone who’s a friend of yours speak his mind and still remain a colleague the way he was before?
AGAMEMNON; You should speak out. I would scarcely be thinking properly if I said no. “ Imagine if Agamemnon offered this same courtesy to Achilles
TEUCER “Noble Odysseus, I have nothing but praise for what you’ve said. You have done so much to disprove my fears. Of all the Argives, you were the one who was his greatest enemy, and yet
you are the only one to stand by him, to lend a helping hand. For when he died “ Odysseus is the hero? Wow!
“Achilles lived to be the one to grant his prize of arms, rewarding strength and valour, no other man but I would have laid hold “
ODYSSEUS; Well, may someone who’s a friend of yours speak his mind and still remain a colleague the way he was before?
AGAMEMNON; You should speak out. I would scarcely be thinking properly if I said no. “ Imagine if Agamemnon offered this same courtesy to Achilles
TEUCER “Noble Odysseus, I have nothing but praise for what you’ve said. You have done so much to disprove my fears. Of all the Argives, you were the one who was his greatest enemy, and yet you are the only one to stand by him, to lend a helping hand. For when he died “ Odysseus is the hero? Wow!
ODYSSEUS; Well, may someone who’s a friend of yours speak his mind and still remain a colleague the way he was before?
AGAMEMNON; You should speak out. I would scarcely be thinking properly if I said no. “ Imagine if Agamemnon offered this same courtesy to Achilles
TEUCER “Noble Odysseus, I have nothing but praise for what you’ve said. You have done so much to disprove my fears. Of all the Argives, you were the one who was his greatest enemy, and yet
you are the only one to stand by him, to lend a helping hand. For when he died “ Odysseus is the hero? Wow!
TFBT: Notes on Ajax by Sopocles
I was surprised by how unpleasant this tragedy is, I am having a hard time finishing it. It starts with Ajax’s near and dear putting him on suicide watch, then dealing with his suicide, ugh. Then to make matters worse the Atreides say they can’t bury the body. Didn’t they learn anything from the experience of Creon and Antigone a generation before? Ugh!
“But you accept from me this shield of careful work,
my son, from which you take your name, Eurysaces,” footnote says “(Eurysaces, the name of the child, literally means broad shield. Ajax's shield, his most famous weapon,” Kind of follows the argument that the names of the sons are epithets of their father”
my son, from which you take your name, Eurysaces,” footnote says “(Eurysaces, the name of the child, literally means broad shield. Ajax's shield, his most famous weapon,” Kind of follows the argument that the names of the sons are epithets of their father”
“Achilles lived to be the one to grant his prize of arms, rewarding strength and valour, no other man but I would have laid hold “
The irony that Achilles would arbitrate over the disposal of his own armor . And a clear reminder to to the audience that this is all mote, Neoptolemus will show up shortly to claim his father’s armor.
ODYSSEUS; Well, may someone who’s a friend of yours speak his mind and still remain a colleague the way he was before?
AGAMEMNON; You should speak out. I would scarcely be thinking properly if I said no. “ Imagine if Agamemnon offered this same courtesy to Achilles
TEUCER “Noble Odysseus, I have nothing but praise for what you’ve said. You have done so much to disprove my fears. Of all the Argives, you were the one who was his greatest enemy, and yet you are the only one to stand by him, to lend a helping hand. For when he died “ Odysseus is the hero? Wow!
“ The irony that Achilles would arbitrate over the disposal of his own armor . And a clear reminder to to the audience that this is all mote, Neoptolemus will show up shortly to claim his father’s armor.
ODYSSEUS; Well, may someone who’s a friend of yours speak his mind and still remain a colleague the way he was before?
AGAMEMNON; You should speak out. I would scarcely be thinking properly if I said no. “ Imagine if Agamemnon offered this same courtesy to Achilles
TEUCER “Noble Odysseus, I have nothing but praise for what you’ve said. You have done so much to disprove my fears. Of all the Argives, you were the one who was his greatest enemy, and yet
you are the only one to stand by him, to lend a helping hand. For when he died “ Odysseus is the hero? Wow!
ODYSSEUS; Well, may someone who’s a friend of yours speak his mind and still remain a colleague the way he was before?
AGAMEMNON; You should speak out. I would scarcely be thinking properly if I said no. “ Imagine if Agamemnon offered this same courtesy to Achilles
TEUCER “Noble Odysseus, I have nothing but praise for what you’ve said. You have done so much to disprove my fears. Of all the Argives, you were the one who was his greatest enemy, and yet
you are the only one to stand by him, to lend a helping hand. For when he died “ Odysseus is the hero? Wow!
Bill,
ReplyDeleteOdysseus here is indeed so unlike his usual self that I do not know what to think of it.
Have you any idea what happened to the bodies of the suitors he slew? Or the last reference to them is when one of their shadows complains to the shadow of Agamemnon:
"So we died, Agamemnon, and our bodies still lie uncared-for in Odysseus’ great hall since the news has not yet reached our homes and summoned our friends to wash the black blood from our wounds, and lay out or bodies, grieving as befits the dead" (Odyssey XXIV)
Maya,
ReplyDeleteGood questions. I recall the "bad" maids had to scrub the blood off the floor in the hall. I thought Odysseus, Telemachus and the other loyal servant tossed the bodies on the dung heap, but that's a lot of bodies. If we can't find it, we should ask the Kosmonauts.
When we got word about Ajax being the subject of the book club, I went to my book shelf and grabbed my copy of Sophocles. Which I had never opened. (The library has a monthly book sale and I religiously attend because sometimes you find great books. Whenever I run across some ancient Greek tome, I feel obligated to rescue it from the recycling bin, because no one but me reads this stuff.) So, I open my copy of Sophocles's play. It is not the plays, it is commentary by Ruth Schodel on the plays. I am a big fan of hers. I will be posting excerpts our of her book. The big thing she points out right off the bat is this is not the Ajax we came to know and love in the Iliad.
Bill
Maya,
DeleteApparently the bodies of the suitors who lived off island were sent home. https://www.jstor.org/stable/282993?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Bill
Maya,
ReplyDeleteFound it! "[22.50] and propped them up against one another in the gatehouse... 24.415] as soon, therefore, as the people heard of it they gathered from every quarter, groaning and hooting before the house of Odysseus. They took the dead away, buried every man his own, and put the bodies of those who came from elsewhere on board the fishing vessels, for the fishermen to take each of them to his own place. [420]
Bill