Wednesday, July 8, 2015

TFBT; "Men Die!"

Sarah S at Hour 25 teases me about my tremendous knowledge of Greek mythology. Our friend Jack followed up by offering to help me write the definitive tome on the topic.  I begged off by stating that  I didn’t have some great insight or thread of logic I could trace throughout the hydra-headed corpus of Greek mythology.  But while staining the rough cut paneling of the Summer Study I pondered that whole notion. Maybe I do.    

I can summarize it this way; “Men Die!”  The primordial sky-god Uranus foresaw his sons castrating him.  The Olympian were buried in their father Cronus’ belly.  The Titans were bound in their mother Gaia’s underbelly.  All three incidents sound like death to me, the last in particularly is literally a “dirt nap”.  And the consequence of all this was gods striving against “death”.  Hermes and Geryon didn’t know if they were immortal.  Hermes found out at the end of a shika-bob; which he discovered he couldn’t eat, making him a god.  Geryon at the end of Heracles poinsoned arrows, making him dead and mortal.  (TFBT:The Divine Aversion to Death and Nyctophobia)  

Not only does the fact that “Men Die!” explains the ancient Greek heroes striving for endless glory in epic, but it also explains ever foolish hubristic attempt by mortals to attain godhood, nothing to lose.  (TFBT; Five Reasons for Fighting the Fates) We don’t read about women yearning for children which is a woman’s form of immortality back then; but we know the Greek regretted sending their dear ones to Hades unwed conquently girls like Antigone were laid to rest in their wedding gowns.  (The Bride of Hades 

See also,  “The Impermanence of the Permanent: The Death of the Gods? by Lorenzo F. Garcia, Jr.,   
 
I need to ponder this “definitive” insight more. 

 

 

 

11 comments:

  1. "We don’t read about women yearning for children which is a woman’s form of immortality back then."

    Children were a substitute form of immortality also for men after they lost hope for true immortality (in Plato's Symposium). However, you are right that we don't see mortal women struggling for immortality. I guess, in that misogynist culture mythmakers did not care about immortality of women more than the author of the Quran did. However, in the Quran, men are promised 72 non-human beautiful virgins in Paradise, and I don't remember a respective promise about the Islands of the Blessed. Let's remember also Hesiod's Golden Age and the myth of Pandora. It seems that ancient Greeks had fantasies about a blissful life without women.

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    1. Maya,

      Jason certainly agreed that men needed to find another way to get children. Maybe a dryad would have been a better choice than a priestess of Hecate.

      Bill

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    2. Yes, I had forgotten that Jason says this explicitly in this very play!

      It is strange to me that Hecate is portrayed as very caring and benevolent in the texts we have about her (the Homeric Hymn to Demeter and the Theogony), and at the same time was regarded as a being with malicious power in cult.

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  2. It is a funny coincidence that you write how some myth characters didn't know whether they were immortal before undergoing some test, and I had written the same about my Thetis, putting these words in her mouth:

    "...I was lucky, because I happened to be out looking for cuttlefish when Zeus sent Iris to bring me. She waited for three hours, got bored and went back. She told my father, when I return, to send me to Olympus. She didn't say why, but it is obvious. Zeus wants to throw me into his bed. He has wanted this for a long time. Actually, this is why I left Olympus in a rush, leaving a pile of nice clothes behind. He thinks that, because he is the king, he is entitled to every maiden he wishes. And my father, instead of trying to protect me, told me to go... So I pretended to head for Olympus, but decided to disappear on the way... And of course, since I left my father's home, there has been no ambrosia for me. I fear that I may be dependent on it and now I'll begin to age because of that scoundrel Zeus. I'd wish to know whether I am protected from mortality!"
    (She gives a sample for a lab test and so learns that she is a true immortal. The same test reveals that her male children will be unusually strong.)

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    1. Maya,

      Lab test! A lab test would destroy my "Men Die!" paradigm for all of Greek Myth. Guess I will have to come up some other insight before I write a book. Darn.

      Bill

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  3. Well, the ancient Greeks could muse about pigeons bringing ambrosia to Zeus, and humans molded out of clay (as far as I know, we never hear where nectar comes from). However, I cannot portray my gods synthesizing nectar (with vitamin C as active ingredient) and ambrosia (an indigestible lactose analog) and genetically modifying organisms without a state-of-the-art lab.

    The joke aside, why would a lab test destroy the "Men Die!" paradigm?

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  4. Maya,

    The first science (ology) I adored before mythology was genealogy. My experiece and skill there carried into my mythology studies. I have tried time and time again to trace the divine gene through the immortal family trees. It aint there. Ares and Aphrodite are the parents of Harmonia, a mere mortal. Hera's (and Zeus) son Hephaestus was lame. Apollo had only one son of Olympian status. Even before the gods pulled the veil, the greatness seemed to fade from their DNA.

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  5. I had the same problem. Of course, I could describe the process of mortalization without explaining it, but no self-respecting piece of science fiction would leave such an important fact unexplained.

    To solve the matter, I borrowed from the maturation processes of lymphocytes where multiple proto-genes are excised to produce functional genes. (Actually, this deliberation helped me correct something that I had got wrong about lymphocyte maturation). So I postulated that gods have multiple immortality genes and that the are gradually excised in their reproductive organs.

    The Moirae, who are representatives of an unidentified advanced civilization, are behind the whole affair. As they say:

    "Our people advanced in science and technology so much that we could achieve immortality, and heated discussions began whether it was desirable. Some thought it wasn't, but many others were convinced that it was. So we created you (i.e. the gods) to check the different hypotheses. But because it would have been wrong to let you take over the Earth, we took care that your immortality protections are gradually excised. So we cut the thread of your generations."

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  6. How do you think, do gods retain any ability to reproduce at all, or from some time on they become unable to have even mortal progeny?

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  7. When gods fight each other in the Iliad, it is always the older who wins, except in the case of Athena and Aphrodite where we do not know who older is. Hera beats up Artemis, Apollo flees Poseidon and Hermes flees Leto. To me, most striking is the last example, because Leto is not only female but also known for her submissiveness (an ideal Saudi wife, I'd say).

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  8. Maya

    Good point, based on Homer we dont know whivh daughter of Zeus is older, but Athena is more like and better dressed for battle. . Hermes fear of Leto has more to do with Apollo than Leto based on hH to Apollo.

    Bill

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