Just some random notes and observations on Medea by Euripides.
There are constant calls and references to sky, earth and sun; Zeus Gaea and Helios. One I suppose those are the deities one calls as witnesses when making an oath and the play centers on Jason not conforming to the oaths he made to Medea. Plus Helios is her grand-father so maybe that another reason for the references.
1377; " I'll take them to Hera's sacred lands in Acraia, so no enemy may dig up their graves and initiate a solemn celebration, with mystic rites, future atonement for this wicked murder. " Pausanias at II.3.7 says the rites actually occurred. All this reminds me of
Archemoros and the Seven against Thebes. I wonder if the rites were similar. Though I seem to recall their were games in Archemoros' honor.
Two of the three translations speak of Medea's relationship to the Goddess Hecate is in the following terms. "Hecate who dwells in the recesses of my heart " 397 (who lives with me deep inside my home, 396 ). What does this mean? You don't hear lines like this in Greek myth often.
“Well, I was passing by those benches where the old men gamble by Peirene, at the holy spring,”. A rare discussion of gambling
"Medea woman, I see I'm making a mistake, for you can have your extra day. But let me warn you—if the sun catches you tomorrow within the borders of this country, you or your children, you'll be put to death " (350 ) So I would assume I had another day, that would mean I have the entire following day, but my civilization has a concept of zero
Creon of Corinth's daughter dies in what sounds like wedding dress. Many presentations "Antigone" have Creon of Thebes' niece dying in a wedding dress.
"so the story goes, the Muses, nine maidens of Pieria, gave birth to golden-haired Hermione." 831. What?! Does this mean the Muses create divine harmony or were they actually the mother of Harmonia? I recall the nine gigantic mothers of the Norse-God Heimdall, Lord of the rainbow-bridge to Asgard
The dress and tiara sent to Princess Glauce are "by far the finest human gifts I know " (1112 ) "these gifts, (1120 ) which my grandfather Helios once gave to his descendants. ". Surely made by Helios' good buddy Hephaestus hence divine and ambrosial but made deadly by Medea's poison. I wonder if they survived the fire.(Seneca version)
"Great Themis, and husband of Themis," Coleridge is referring to Zeus
"I can show those hostile to you I've a good excuse. And it makes your position safer. Tell me the gods that I should swear by."( 740-4). Interesting use of a rash oath by the oath taker
"Anyone forbidden to attend my sacrifice, let such a man concern himself about these children." (1054-5). What does this mean?
Do you think there is a tendency for Hephaestus' gifts to bring bad luck to mortals?
ReplyDeleteActually, some think that Medea's access to the "mechane" at the end of the play puts her mortal status in question. Is there any account of her death?
Maya you asked the most interesting questions. I can find no reference to Medea's death or grave. Hey that reminds me I will see what Graves has to say, and I have a collection of Medea essays I will look for.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, I visited Www.theoi.com. Aaron Astma has two lists of things created by Hephaestus. Only Harmonia 's necklace and robe were intrinsically bad. So we can blame Medea totally. I have been corresponding with Atsma. Next month is the 15th anniversary of his awesome site
Maya,
DeleteRobert Graves says, "Medea never died, but became an immortal and reigned in the Elysian Fields where some say that she, rather than Helen, married Achilles." He uses as reference Scholliast on Euripides' Medea #10 and Apollonius Rhodius IV. 814. I can't find the Scholiast, but Apollonius is the source of the myth that Medea married Achilles
Bill
I remember Hera talking to Thetis in Apollonius' Argonautica and predicting that Achilles (a mere baby at that time) would later marry Medea in the Elysian Fields. She conveniently omits that Achilles would die young, killed in battle.
DeleteAchilles never met Medea in life, but we have no reason to think that he would like her more than you or I do. As for Helen, he states that he hates her. I like better the version in which he marries Neoptolemus' mother Deidamia. Or maybe he would struggle for the right to "marry" Patroclus.
I also visited Theoi.com to check for artifacts made by Hephaestus and given to mortals. Let's catalog them:
Delete- The crown of Ariadne - if Ariadne is immortalized, the gift is innocent; if not, it is associated with ugly events;
- The crown of Pandora - no comment needed;
- The necklace and robe of Harmonia - no comment needed;
- The bowl of Menelaus - after decades of bad luck, he prefers to give it away to Telemachus; maybe it was innocent thereafter;
- The urn of Achilles - no comment needed;
- The bowl of Priam - a treasure given by Zeus to his mortal progeny, the house of Dardanus that he eventually exterminates;
- The bowls of Euneus - given to Achilles as a ransom for Lycaon; very soon after that, both heroes are dead;
- The bowl of Telephus - the recipient wisely dedicates it to a temple, so it brings no harm;
- The scepter of Agamemnon - hardly a bringer of good luck;
- The golden vine of Laomedon - maybe innocent.
So far, Hephaestus' masterpieces seem almost as ominous for mortals as Tolkien's Silmarils.
DeleteThen, we have a list of weapons and armors given to various heroes, of which no conclusion can be drawn, so we'd better return to what Hephaestus himself tells Thetis: his armors are great, but they will not protect the warrior from his death.
I do not by any means imply that Medea is innocent. However, in myth (and scripture), we have two planes of action. We have the human plane where mortals are fully responsible, and we have the divine plane where gods impose their irresistible will on mortals. We know that Aphrodite managed Helen's eloping with Paris, and at the same time we see Helen in the Iliad blaming herself, and we know that she should. We also know that Medea's falling in love with Jason, which was the trouble to begin all troubles, was the result of a divine plot.
There is an analogy in the New Tastement: Jesus says that He must be betrayed because it has been foretold and is needed for His mission, but at the same time for the person performing this function, it is better to have never have been born. Here, the unbiased reader is likely to think, "Poor Judas!".
Maya,
DeleteAs to achilles; there are 8 candidates for the title Mrs. achilles in the after life. As I recall, A & H were parents to Euphorian in the Isle of Blest. This demi-god is the only live birth In the afterlife that I can recall.
Menelaus wasnt all that unlucky compared the the rest of his cursed family
As to the urn; well "Men die." No big vurse there
Same with the bowl of Priam, he had a pretty good life gor sixty years
All that said Telemachus was probably wise.
You remembered Hera's Medea-prophecy! Good memory
Bill
Yes, "men die", but the imminence of death is questioned throughout the story of Achilles. Maybe because we are several times given the viewpoint of Thetis. She is immortal and wishes the same for him. But even if she wasn't immortal herself, she is his mother, and mothers avoid admitting that their children are mortal.
ReplyDeleteMy memory is not that good, but I tried to collect every ancient source about Thetis.
ReplyDeleteMaya,
ReplyDeleteHomer really puts some effort into hiding the existence of the Isle of the Blest, until the end of the Odyssey. He really needed to play up the one choice or the other.
You've read "The Power of Thetis" right?
Bill
Yes, but it was Kimie who helped me realize the power of Thetis, in an Hour25 discussion.
DeleteMaya,
ReplyDeleteWhat did Kimie say?
Bill
This is the important quote:
ReplyDelete"...Slatkin describes Thetis as a goddess who is inherently very powerful, because she has the capacity to produce a heir who would overtake Zeus, if she mated with an immortal. (She is immortal, and her capacity is eternal–in my view)..."
I had thought that the rational for Zeus of marrying off Thetis to Peleus was to make male gods unwillingness to take as a sexual partner a goddess who has been in a mortal's bed. You correctly pointed out that there are example of gods mating with a goddess after she has mated with a mortal.
Kimie stressed that Thetis could still find a divine partner, if she wished, and produce a mighty son, and this was her power and potential for retaliation. (Slatkin talks about Thetis' wrath and bringing Olympus to submission, but I didn't find in her work any argument that there was real power behind this wrath.)
I changed my storyline according to this new idea and mentioned how after the death of Achilles some unidentified gods propose to Thetis, saying that she is lovely and they would enjoy being with her, but, more importantly, they hope that the pleasant nights together would bring an end to Zeus' tyranny. Thetis, however, turns back the offers; with her experience, she fears that no son of hers would have the capacity to be a good leader and that, anyway, the quest to install a good king is - as we would say - vain seeking of a personal solution to an institutional problem.
Maya,
DeleteTwo things
One the prophecy thst Thetis will produce a son greater than his father might only apply to Poseidon and Zeus, since the were the ones courting her at the time. Just a thought.
Two, 80% of the Odyssey is told my Odyseeus not Homer. Do we really expect Odysseus to say in his own Epic that Achilles is the greater of the two? Plus do we have any reason to believe the shadows in Hades know anything about their souls in Paradise. Homeer doesnt even admit to the existence of the Isle of the Blest until late in the Odyssey.
Fun conversation!
Bill
You know I've been biased against Odysseus from the beginning, but after reading the Odyssey, it is difficult for me to admit that he has any greatness. I read the book as a rare tale of the end of a civilization and the coming of Dark Ages. Of course, the civilization - as in Euripides' Bacchae - doesn't look really civilized and deserving to survive. I guess, it never does in such circumstances. However, while the suitors are bad guys, we just need to look at Odysseus, who rejected their proposal of ransom, killed them all and then intended to take the ransom from their families anyway.
DeleteAthena promised "peace and prosperity" for Ithaca but all she could really do was to throw oblivion over the time when the island really had (relative) peace and prosperity. As in Orwell. This ending stands in strange contrast with the traditional idea of all epic to perpetuate memory.
Maya,
DeleteI have always found the Odyssey's deux de machina ending disappointing. Ending of the Iliad is much more statisfying
Bill
So do I. However, to make the ending of the Iliad satisfying, Homer had to insert it in mid-story. The ending of the Odyssey is at its proper place at the end of the story. "When the music is over, turn off the lights."
DeleteIn that same discussion, some participants mentioned the special clothes with which Thetis and her sisters dress Achilles' body, preparing it for immortality. You also wrote about this on your blog (don't remember where exactly). However, I've now read the entire Odyssey and I am confused. The clothes are mentioned by Agamemnon's soul talking to Achilles' soul in Hades. Unlike Heracles' soul who at least says that he is a phantom and the real Heracles is on Olympus, Achilles' soul doesn't say a word about the real Achilles being in some blessed place. He seems as dead as Agamemnon, the suitors and any other denizen of Hades.
ReplyDelete