TFBT: Telegonus

At Hour 25 we’ve discussed Telegonus on several occasions.  (And Telegonos!) I thought I’d offer a little reminder on him for those that are interested.   “Telegonus, son of Ulysses (Odysseus) and Circe, sent by his mother to find his father, by a storm was carried to Ithaca, and there, driven by hunger, began to lay waste the fields. Ulysses and Telemachus, not knowing who he was, took up arms against him. Ulysses was killed by his son Telegonus; it had been told him by an oracle to beware of death at his son’s hands. Telegonus on discovering who he was, with Telemachus and Penelope returned to his home on the island of Aeaea by Minerva’s instructions. They brought the body of Ulysses to Circe, and buried it there. By the advice of Minerva (Athena) again, Telegonus married Penelope, and Telemachus married Circe. From Circe and Telemachus Latinus was born, who gave his name to the Latin language; from Penelope and Telegonus Italus was born, who called the country Italy from his own name. Hyginus, Fabulae 127   Okay, that was one possible ending to the story of Penelope, Telemachus, Telegonus and Circe.  There are several conflicting and often incestous sounding versions. I like the following; "When Telegonos learned from Kirke that he was Odysseus’ son, he sailed out in search of his father . . . He took the corpse [of Odysseus] and Penelope to Kirke, and there he married Penelope. Kirke dispatched them both to the Islands of the Blessed (Nesoi Makaron)." Apollodorus, Bibliotheca E7. 36-37   The only thing I might add is that if Telegonus and Telemachus’ names represents their father’s epithets, then Odysseus must have (tele) phoned it in a lot.  (Ha, ha!)  Must have been on of the first tele-workers.  (Ha, ha!  Sometimes I just crack myself up!)

 

TFBT: Random Comments on the Telemachus

 

At Hour 25 we were discussing “The Telemachus” that’s the portion of Odysseus’ epic more concerned with the son than the father.   When I read, “Meanwhile lovely Polykaste, Nestor’s youngest daughter, washed Telemachus.” I recalled that according to Eustathius, commentary on Homer (Eustath. ad Hom. l.c.）Polycaste by Telemachus became the mother of Perseptolis. Makes me wonder about Helen bathing Odysseus. “I was bathing him and anointing him with oil, and had put on him raiment,” Hmm. I wondered if Menelaus suspected anything. Homer gives not indication. 

“He (Telemachus) still does not know why his father was not granted a safe return like Nestor who was granted a safe nostos.” We discussed this a while back.  Odysseus intially headed out with Nestor and Diomedes. He could have had a safe homecoming, but for some reason he turned around and went back. 

I am always struck at the similiarity between Nestor and Priam. Both elderly heroes, with the former living the life the latter could have had. Both set upon their thrones at young ages by a lion-skin clad demi-god who’d just slaughtered the rest of their family.

• “Take the reins and rule your state, sitting on your father’s throne, but wield the sceptre with better faith.” (Heracles 1 to Priam 1. Seneca, Troades 718ff.).

• Nestor speaking at Hom. Il. xi. 692 “For mighty Heracles had come and oppressed us in the years that were before, and all that were our bravest had been slain. Twelve were we that were sons of peerless Neleus, and of these I alone was left, and all the rest had perished”

TFBT: Random Notes from Hour 11

Random notes from Hour 11 of the " The Ancient Greek Hero"

 

Helen wife of Menelaus interprets a “sign” favorably to Telemachos who replies at Odyssey15:180,  “May Zeus, high thundering husband of Hera so grant it,” replied the spirited Telemakhos; “if it should prove to be so, I will make vows to you as though you were a god, even when I am at home.” Homeric foreshadowing of heroic honors for Helen? 

Odyssey 13:375 “Resourceful Odysseus,” said Athena, “noble son of Laertes and seed of Zeus, think how you can lay hands on these disreputable people who have been lording it in your house these three years, courting your godlike wife”   The suitors were only there for three years?   

Why did Odsseus have to visit Tierasis? What did Tierasis tell him that Circe, Athena or common sense didn’t already know?  Was this like the wizard sending Dorothy to the Wicked Witch for her broom? 

Starting at Odyssey 8:145,  Prince Laodamas invites Odysseus to join the games, Have a try therefore at something, and banish all sorrow from your mind…” Odysseus feels taunted because his mind is set on his cares and infinite troubles.  Then Laodamas friend Euryalos flat out says to wily Odysseus “I gather, then, that you are unskilled in any of the many sports that men generally delight in.” Followed by even more insulting comments about Odysseus manliness. Finally, “For shame, sir,” answered resourceful Odysseus, fiercely, Your ill-judged remarks have made me exceedingly angry … for your taunts have stung me to the quick.” So wily Odysseus grabs a discus, throws it further than anyone else and Athena disguised as a man in the crowd  says “A blind man, sir,” said she, “could easily tell your mark by groping for it – it is so far ahead of any other. You may make your mind easy about this contest, for no Phaeacian can come near to such a throw as yours.” Much-enduring great Odysseus was glad “  Looks like Laodama and Euryalos were the wily ones this day.  Talk about white-washing the fence!