TFBT: Correct Conversation in the Iliad

In preparation for a live discussion on the Language of Heroes Professor Richard Martin asked members of Hour 25 to make sense in context of the speech-acts in three passages of The Iliad;

·      Text A - Iliad 1.1-52,  Chryses and Agamemnon

·      Text B -  Iliad 20.176-258,   Aeneas and Achilles

·      Text C – Iliad 11.618 – 654, Nestor, Machaon and Patroclus

And then try to apply our sense of the overall speech-situation to Text D - Iliad

6.119 -236, Glaucus and Diomedes.  Unfortunately my observations seem to have turned the post and gone back the other way.  But I suppose that is to be expected with discussing conversation and Nestor.

Here’s what I got so far;

In “Text A” the priest Chryses demands the return of his daughter in the name of the god Apollo.  Lord Agamemnon  “spoke fiercely to him”, and maybe with good reason.  Based on the examples of Thetis supplication of Zeus and Priam’s of Achilles, Chryses was not supplicating Agamemnon  properly.  If the priest had maybe Agamemnon’s response might have been similar to Nestor in “Text C”; “he sprang from his seat, seized his (Patroclus’ s) hand, led him into the tent, and bade him take his place among  them”  Of course that didn’t happen, Agamemnon sent the priest away.  “The old man feared him and obeyed.”  But as we know from Hour 24 in HeroesX just because one party goes away, the dialogue doesn’t end, rather “Not a word he spoke, but went by the shore of the sounding sea and prayed apart to King Apollo whom lovely fine haired Leto had borne.”  Chryses continuation of the conversation foreshadows Achilles own prayer apart by the sounding sea.  And we all know how affective that was for Achilles in the Iliad and for Demeter in her Homeric Hymn.

In Text B when I read Aeneas say, “I will, can brag and talk unseemly…We could fling taunts… and talk all sorts of ways” I took this for the normal sort of chest puffing, trash-talk you can witness before some sporting events and on the playground before recess.  It wasn’t until Text D when  I heard the graciousness of the son of Hippolokhos and the son of Tydeus on the battlefield that I realized Achilles barely got a word in edgewise and that Aeneas was disrespectful of Achilles lineage. Maybe if Aeneas hadn’t been talking like Thersites he might have walked away with the much coveted armor of Achilles.

Text C brings us a man who knows how to converse.  Nestor as host takes Machaon to the shore so they can dry their shirts in the breeze, while a wise woman sets a meal for them.  And the mixing of the wine took on such precision and ritual that it conjured up images of Demeter’s sacred drought  then “they fell talking with one another”.  You just know this was a great talk.  Enter Patroclus, greeted graciously as mentioned above.  His response to the offer of wine is almost as curt as Demeter’s had been.  He gets what he wants and is gone.

In Text D two chivalrous Bronze Age nobles exchange gracious respectful words  and part with gifts to amaze their peers for generations to come.  One would have the armor of Diomedes and the other armor of gold.  (As to Glaucus taking leave of his wits; keep in mind these are the words of an envious iron age bard who sings for his dinner singing of two bronze age heroes whose world view was as different from his as ours is of all of them. )

Visit the full text of Professor Martin's book at the Center for Hellenic Studies; http://chs.harvard.edu/wa/pageR?tn=ArticleWrapper&bdc=12&mn=3366
 

TFBT: Nestor’s Aristeia in the Iliad

In the Eleventh Book of the Iliad, the Trojans armed with fire surge towards the beached boats of the Achaeans (Greeks).  Achaean warrior after warrior falls before the onslaught lead by Hector and Paris, princes of Troy.  After rescuing one of the most vital of these heroes, aged Nestor gives a lengthy speech; a bitter diatribe against Achilles, the hero of the Iliad.  Achilles sulked in his tent for most of the epic to that point.    I suggest that this speech has nothing to do with Achilles and everything to do with Nestor. 

The speech in question is prompted by Achilles sending his best friend Patroclus to ask of Nestor how things are going.  Nester responds to Patroclus in Book 11: 656-803 of the Iliad.  The speech begins with justifiable comments about Achilles indifferences to the suffering of his fellow Achaeans, then recounts Nestor’s greatest exploits as a young man and then ends with recommendations on what Achilles could do beside sulking in his tent.    

He is renown among the Achaeans for his eloquence and wise counsel. “Nestor, sweet of speech, the clear-voiced orator of the Pylians, from whose tongue flowed speech sweeter than honey. Two generations of mortal men had passed away in his lifetime, who had been born and reared with him before in sacred Pylos, and he was king among the third." (Iliad 1.247) He might not be strong enough to heft and throw a spear or to pull back a bow string, but he can provide vital strategic advice, lead by example, marshal his troops and vitally at this point in the story, drive a chariot. 

First in his speech,  Nestor complains that mighty Diomedes took a sharp arrow in the foot, Odysseus received a wound in the side by a spear thrust, Agamemnon took a spear thrust to the lower arm, and  Eurypylus too was struck by an arrow in the thigh, “and this man beside (Machaon) have I but now borne forth from the war smitten with an arrow from the string. Yet Achilles, valiant though he be, careth not for the Danaans.” (Iliad 1.660. “ Danaans“ is another poetic term for the Greeks.)    Oddly he does not mention warriors injured earlier in the epic like Menelaus after the botched duel with Alexander. ( Book 4.104)  Nestor only references those he personally could not aid this particular day.  This is an elderly  man complaining that Achilles did not do what Nestor could not do himself.   

Next,  comes a lengthy tale about a war in Pylos during Nestor’s youth.  The story  in no way compares to situation the Danaans find themselves in currently, nor compares to Achilles current situation.  I would follow ”The Paradigmatic Nature of Nestor's Speech in Iliad 11” by Victoria Pedrick in suggesting that this is Nestor’s aristeia in the Iliad.  An aristeia is a warriors finest moment in battle.  This is the moment when a hero is most akin to the gods.  This is his moment of kleos (glory) and if it happens in the Iliad, a chance at unending fame.  If Protesilaus (Iliad 2.695) and Ipidamas (Iliad 11.221) can both come to Troy in order to attain kleos in the Iliad, why not Nestor?  As Pedrick points out this is the moment in the battle for the ships, where Nestor’s great aristeia affects Patroclus’ return to battle and the course of the war forever. From the moment of Nestor’s aristeia, the tide of battle turns, the Trojans will soon be routed and Hector’s fate sealed.  

And finally Nestor suggests what Achilles should do or should let Patroclus do. It sounds a lot like what Nestor wishes he could do.  In tone it recalls (Iliad 1.255) when Nestor whined that men better than those of the current age use to listen to his advice. 

In summary I would suggest that, like Nestor’s famous speech about chariot-racing in Book 23 which has nothing to do with chariot-racing; Nestor’s famous speech about Achilles in Book 11 has nothing to do with Achilles and everything to do with Nestor.

TFBT: Random Notes on Hour 20 of the Ancient Greek Hero

"Odysseus employs the divine authority and enchanting poetic voice which he appropriates from the Sirens” Bellum? Is it possible that the winner of musical contests gets the right to use the loser’s song? Is that how the muses became the Pierides?

“Heroes keep trying to prove to themselves that they belong somehow to a world of immortals, but, after all is said and done; heroes only end up proving that they deserve to die for trying.”

  H24H 20:63 Nagy

As I mentioned in the last posting that I consistently flunk the hourly quizzes for the Harvard on-line course I am taking.  I reviewed all the old quizzes and essays.  It ends up I always answer the questions from a secular prospective rather than the perspective of a pious 5^th century BC Athenian.  Great!  Another example for my ongoing research in the inappropriateness of secular interpretation of Greek myth and I’m the example!   It is as if I was studying the New Testaments and when quizzed about the parables I responded as if the Lord was actually talking about sheep.  Ugh!   Maybe I learned my lesson.  I got a 96% on the quiz for Hour 20.

I also witnessed a great discussion between Douglas Frame and Gregory Nagy about the symbolism of horse racing.  Famously in the Iliad Nestor gives a long speech on the strategy and tactics of winning a horse race to his son.  This is towards the end of the “the first, best thing” at Patroclus’ funeral.  Nestor’s advice involves a washed out place on the course where the younger man could force a strategic advantage over other competitors.  Nestor also discussion in great detail turning the post  for the return trip  You know rein in the left horse, let the right horse fly, don’t turn to soon, not too wide….  Next thing you know the charioteers are galloping off, and then returning with no discussion of “turning the post”.  Also we discover that when Nestor was the age of his son, he won all the contests at a similar funeral, except the chariot race. At the finish line the typical debate about the prizes breaks out and the young man’s trick at the washed out spot is argued.  So, let’s see Nestor is no charioteer to advise on turning the post and there is no talk about his son turning the post.     If you keep reading what you hear in the debates about the prizes is his son reins in this passion at the correct moment and then lets them flew when the moment is right.  Apparently Nestor's advice had nothing to do with horses.  Nagy argues that "turning the post" is the moment we learn something or is the moment of initiation.  We learn something by the time we get back to the finish line, we grow and mature or else we are doomed to repeat the course over an over until we crash and die, like Hippolytus who refused to grow up. In further discussions with Claudia Filos, Nagy points out that tragedy starts with Hippolytus’s initiation into the Eleusinian mysteries.  Gee! I guess he failed that one too!  I hope my 96% proves I didn’t!

TFBT: The Turning Point

You are skillful at wheeling your horses round the post...                                                                   Iliad 23: 309

Just prior to the chariot race at the funeral games honoring Patroclus, Nestor gave his son Antilochos some advice on how to win the race.  It is widely-held that the advice didn’t have much to do with winning a horse race.  I hope to demonstrate that here.

Homer, with the omniscience available to him through the Muses states that Antiochos’ “father came up to him to give him good advice of which, however, he stood in but little need.” (Il 23:304-306)   His father than says, “Zeus and Poseidon have loved you well, and have made you an excellent charioteer. I need not therefore say much by way of instruction. You are skillful at wheeling your horses round the post,”[Il 23: 306-310] So, clearly Antilochos doesn’t need any advice on chariot racing and yet here it comes for those with eyes to see and ear to hear.

His father offers him “a certain sign which cannot escape your notice.” The sign ends up being; “a stump of a dead tree-oak” or maybe a pine, or an old grave or “a turning-post in days gone by” but in this particular case it is; the mark round which the chariots will turn before returning to the beach.  It appears that there are several different signs where this advice will be useful.

Nestor then goes on to give his son, who is universally acknowledged as skillful at wheeling his horses round the post, advice on how to round the post.  Mostly stuff about not getting the left wheel too close to the post and specifically; “..urge on your right-hand horse with voice and lash, and give him a loose rein, but let the left-hand horse keep so close...”

Then the five chariots are off across the plain.  Several things occur and then “ they were doing the last part of the course on their way back towards the sea that their pace was strained to the utmost”  with no mention about how skillful Antiochus turned the post.  If his father’s advice was really about turning the post, there is not mention that Antilochos benefitted by it or how he used it.  

The strategy that we hear Antilochos use is to squeeze out Menelaus at a point in the course where water had worn the track away, “The son of Atreus was afraid and shouted out, “Antilokhos, you are driving recklessly; rein in your horses; the road is too narrow here, it will be wider soon, and you can pass me then; if you foul my chariot you may bring both of us to a mischief.” But Antilokhos plied his whip lustily” Antiochus giving his horses rein passed Agamemnon on the outside (right side) of the track, forcing Menelaus on the left to rein his horses in. 

At the finish line Achilles presents the prizes, not fairly, but justly, recognizing those who should have done better.  Anticholos objected “Achilles,” said he, “I shall take it much amiss if you do this thing; you would rob me of my prize.“  Such hot-headedness, such unreigned passion is something  that Achilles can relate to and he gives Antilochos the promised prize.   At which point Menelaus, brother to Agamemnon the leader of the army objects that Antilochos robbed him of his just prize. Antiochus reigns in his temper “And Antilokhos answered, “Forgive me; I am much younger, King Menelaos, than you are…”; mentions Menelaus’ higher status, that he is the better man, bemoans the folly of youth, their hasty tempers and poor judgement.  He begs the older man to make allowance for his youth.  Then turns over the prize; a mare.

“O Menelaos, was your heart made glad within you.”

Menealus praises the young mans behavior in the past, allows that this was a one time thing and warns him agains similar behavior in the future; “I therefore yield to your entreaty and will give up the mare to you.”

 Looks like Nestor’s advice was beneficial after all, it helped Antilochos know how to recognize the “turning point” in the race, when to give rein to his horses and passions and when to reign them both in. 

TFBT: Random Notes from the Iliad

Iliad 9: 50 “Nestor the charioteer rose to speak. “Son of Tydeus,” said he, “in war your prowess is beyond question, and in council you excel all who are of your own years; [55] no one of the Achaeans can make light of what you say nor gainsay it,”  Talk about buttering someone up!

 Iliad 9: 192 “Meanwhile the two of them came in - radiant Odysseus leading the way.”  In the Embassy scene here, the ambassadors are Phoenix, Odysseus and Ajax.  I’ve heard in the Greek that Achilles is using the “dual” tense; in affect totally ignoring Odysseus.  Note that in the ensuing conversation Phoenix recites Agamemnon’s offer pretty much verbatim, while Odysseus paraphrases Achilles response.    To further the dual tense argument note Achilles parting words to Odysseus, 310 “ ... As hateful to me as the gates of Hades is one who says one thing while he hides another in his heart; therefore I will say what I mean.”  Quite a difference from Achilles greeting (to Phoenix and Ajax) [195] … “All hail and welcome …you, …are still dearest to me of the Achaeans.”

Iliad 15: 264 “as a horse, stabled and full-fed, breaks loose and gallops gloriously over the plain [265] to the place where he is wont to take his bath in the river - he tosses his head, and his mane streams over his shoulders as in all the pride of his strength he flies full speed to the pastures where the mares are feeding –“

Iliad 15:580 “as a dog springs on a fawn which a hunter has hit as it was breaking away from its covert, and killed it. Even so, O Melanippos, did stalwart Antilokhos spring upon you to strip you of your armor; but noble Hector marked him, and came running up to him through the thick of the battle.”  Why did Homer switch to the second person tense?

Iliad 15:615 “ Now, however, he kept trying to break the ranks of the enemy wherever he could see them thickest, and in the goodliest armor”  Do Greek Heroes have the same culture as Aztecs; look for someone of rank and noble equipage, when you enter the fray?

Iliad 15: 730 Here he stood on the look-out, and with his spear held back Trojan whom he saw bringing fire to the ships. All the time he kept on shouting at the top of his voice and exhorting the Danaans. “My friends,” he cried, “Danaan heroes, attendants of Ares, be men my friends, and fight with might and with main.  [735] Can we hope to find helpers hereafter, or a wall to shield us more surely than the one we have? There is no strong city within reach, whence we may draw fresh population to turn the scales in our favor. We are on the plain of the armed Trojans with the sea behind us,  [740] and far from our own country. Our salvation, therefore, is in the might of our hands and in hard fighting.”  Great speech by Ajax.