TFBT: Not Even Zeus Can Stop Me Now!

Recently, at “The Ancient Greek Hero in 24 Hours, version 4”  David H asked about some passage dealing with the will of Zeus, and the attitudes of some men toward the will of Zeus. He invited comments on what the role of the will of Zeus was to the narrator, characters, and audience of the Iliad at the time.  My comments are in Italics.  David had quite the list of things to comment on! 

First; Odysseus speaking to Diomedes, Il. Scroll XI “Diomedes answered, “Come what may, I will stand firm; but we shall have scant joy of it, for Zeus the cloud-gatherer is minded to give victory to the Trojans rather than to us.” Throughout the Iliad we see little internal dialogue or self awareness among the characters.  Since they can’t analyze their feels or motivations they just blame it on some daimon or god.  We also throughout the Iliad see some god invisible to them putting thoughts in their heads.

“And now the son of Kronos as he looked down from Ida ordained that neither side should have the advantage, and they kept on killing one another. (line 336 or so).”  According to the lost epic called the “Cypria”  this is the Will of Zeus, depopulation!

(Nestor) lashed his horses and they flew onward holding nothing back towards the ships, as though of their own free will.  You said, “This is speaking of the horses. But does the “as though of their own free will” imply divine purpose?”  Nestor’s experience reminds of of Alexander Dumas’ with post horses.   You know after he got rich with “The Three Musketeers” and “The Count of Monte Cristo” he traved all over the world.   I was just reading “My Adventures in the Caucasias”  To quote Dumas, “Evidently the smell of their stable had lent wings to the horses’ legs.” Nothing divine with Nestor’s horses knowing home.

Scroll XII Speaking of the wall and trench the Achaeans built to protect their camp and ships:    David, the wall around the Achaean camp is such a political hot potato here on earth and on Olympus above, that anything said about it can be discounted as exaggeration or motivated by some hidden agenda.  It is sort of like Nestor’s advice on chariot racing that has nothing to do with chariot racing.  The issues surrounding the wall, involved the maritime imagery in the battle scenes, the fact that Poseidon and Apollo were the slaves who built the walls of Troy (along with Achilles’ grandfather) and mortals not performing the appropriate rituals before beginning a big project.    

 

Scroll XIII line 784 Alexandros to Hector: Now, therefore, lead on where you would have us go, and we will follow with right goodwill; you shall not find us fail you in so far as our strength holds out, but no man can do more than in him lies, no matter how willing he may be.”  So we are back to no self-awareness, if you can’t do something it’s because the daimon of fear entered you.  If you can do something it’s because a god or more likely a goddess is backing you up. 

Scroll XIV Agamemnon to Nestor, line 51 or so…Is Nestor saying that the situation itself will allow no other outcome, and that this is so strong even the gods would be powerless to change it?     This is the usual sort of boast that ends with a lightning bolt, for example; “There Capaneus, because he said he would capture Thebes against Jove’s will, was smitten by a thunderbolt as he was scaling the wall.”  (Hyginus, “Fabulae” 68)  

“Nestor, if the Trojans are indeed fighting at the rear of our ships, and neither the wall nor the trench has served us...”  Is this Agamemnon deciphering the will of Zeus a posteriori. The wall didn't stand the attack, therefore we can conclude that the building of the wall was not Zeus' will?  Again, no self-awareness here, no, “Hmm, maybe the whole wall thing was a bad idea on our part, not as impregnable as we thought.  Maybe we should have put more effort into it.”  Don’t blame yourself, blame the gods.

Scroll XV … I thought this was especially interesting. It covers the whole development in the plot of the Iliad and part of the Odyssey, with all its twists and turns, as the will of Zeus which he will successively carry out, despite the appearance of fickleness on his part with the abrupt changes in fortune for the human parties involved.  David, it also indicates that Zeus was not all that subject to the Fates

In summary, the heroes of the Iliad have some free will, but since they rarely search their souls, they assume any stray thought or errant emotion was the “gift” from a daemon.  “daimon ” being the word they use when they are unsure as to which of the immortals is involved.  Keep in mind that the Will of Zeus, is depopulation! Horses have some free will too unless they push it too far like Achilles’ horses did and the Erinyes shut their mouths. (Homer, Iliad 19. 392)  There’s a lot more to the wall and trench the Achaeans built to protect their camp than  meets the eye. Be careful about saying;  “Not even the gods can stop me now!”  Because the gods are not necessarily as subject to the Fates as envious mortals like to think.