After
our group reading of “Antigone” the other day, I got to wondering what happen
Ismene after Antigone and Haemon’s death.
I found a tidy little summary under an article about Tydeus (Diomedes
father) at Greek Mythology Link, a web site created by Carlos Parada, (http://www.maicar.com/GML/Tydeus2.html) Looks like Parada based his work on Thebaid 8
and a Cornithian vase.
According
to the image of a vase in the Maicar collection associated with the story, Theoclymenus
ran away naked. So at least in one version she ended up with a fiancee and a lover.
Maybe Ismene's killing by Tydeus was the dominant version before Sophocles' play. Of course, in this case Ismene would not be alive by the time of Eteocles' and Polyneices' burial. Sophocles took from the old version Ismene's inclination to make love, not war.
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned that you usen't to like Sophocles' Ismene. Why?
Maya M,
ReplyDeleteI think my previous dislike of Ismene had more to do with my reading of the text than the playwright's composing. Previously my inner voice made her weak and wish-washy compared to the other characters. But Jessica's reading (which I hope will be posted soon.) made Ismene sound like a wise person full of conviction. You know me, I like my heroes and heroines; heroic!
Bill
My opinion developed in a similar way. In my young years (the presumed age of the heroines), I disliked Ismene's weakness and admired Antigone - and wished to be like her. It is good that not all our wishes are granted :-).
ReplyDeleteAmen to that!
ReplyDeleteI saw a discussion at Hour25 about line 572 of the Antigone ("Dear Haemon, how your father dishonors you!") - whether it belongs to Antigone or to Ismene. To me, it seems logical to give it to Ismene, and most trustworthy commenters say so. A translator, Wyckoff, notes that "all extant Greek sources give the line to Ismene".
ReplyDeleteThis made me think of how attitudes to romantic/erotic time have shifted in history. It was quite marginal in ancient times. Well, we have the Song of Solomon. But in Greek mythology, only marital love is regarded as normal. Romantic love between unmarried individuals is usually a result of divine intervention or magical manipulation, borders pathology and typically results in disaster. In the Antigone, the Chorus warns that the "play of the invincible goddess Aphrodite" is perilous, and the plot's development proves it: Haemon's love to Antigone is instrumental for the deadly exodus. Without it, Haemon wouldn't die, neither would Eurydice, and most likely even Antigone.
I think that the poet doesn't make Antigone love Haemon or pretend to. She states quite openly whom she wanted to lay with, and it is her brother. Haemon has no chance to earn the love of Oesipus' daughter, being a mere first cousin to her. In Euripides' Phoenician Women, a play inspired by Sophocles, Antigone refuses to marry Haemon and tells Creon that, if forced to, would slay her husband "like a true Danaid".
Then, in post-King Arthur times, Westerners romanticized premarital and extramarital love and saw it wherever they looked. So naturally in one or two 16th century manuscripts the line went to Antigone.
After the 19th century, there was another shift. I attribute it to the fact that people of all classes and of both sexes now worked full-time. This leaves little free time and brain space for overwhelming romantic love of Romeo-and-Juliet type. We now regard such devoted lovers as individuals failing to outgrow puberty (Juliet in fact was literally in puberty). In the West Side Story, neither "Romeo" nor "Juliet" commits suicide. Having and seeing fewer star-crossed lovers, we now don't see Antigone wasn't one. And I think we are now closer to Sophocles - but I may of course be wrong.
After reading the Odyssey, I see that it seems a common feature of the "apocalyptic horsemen" of Greek myth to kill women. (I don't count the killing of Amazons in battle, which is done by every self-respecting Greek hero.) Neoptolemus kills Polyxene, Tydeus kills Ismene and Odysseus kills the treacherous slave maids.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, in the latter two cases, the setting is strikingly similar: a hero protected and instigated by Athena kills one or more women for having unauthorized sex. I wonder, do virgin goddesses get mad when other women have sex, or there is something deeper here?
Maya,
ReplyDeleteI'm not seeing a whole lot of evidence for a common feature here. I don't recall Achilles killing any women as defined above, Nor Agamemnon, Menelaus, Diomedes, Nestor, Perseus, Bellerophon... Jason never killed any women, but honestly Medea did all the heavy lifting in that marriage.
Bill
The ones I mean here by "apocalyptic horsemen" are those who seem to exist in myth for the sole purpose to destroy cities, and their lethality is not redeemed by any humane quality.
ReplyDeleteFor now, I'd put in the list the Seven, the Epigoni, Neoptolemus and Odysseus, a total of 16 individuals. Of them, 4 are killers of unarmed women: Tydeus, Neoptolemus, Odysseus and Alcmaeon.
I might count also Orestes and Telemachus, but this wouldn't be too fair. They could never cause any apocalypse on his own, even with divine assistance. It is difficult to imagine either of them in real battle, against an enemy able to fight back. They are good only at killing unarmed victims. Well, Orestes in some versions organizes the murder of Neoptolemus, but no version portrays them face to face in single combat. So Orestes and Telemachus delineate another category - of wretched degenerates belonging entirely to the Dark Ages.
You must have mentioned that there is inconsistency between different sources about the identity of Astyanax' murderer - Neoptolemus or Odysseus. I guess, this is because both heroes, despite the significant differences in their personalities and fates, are "apocalyptic horsemen" and so occupy the same ecological niche. Killing a child is a job for a member of this group, it matters little which one exactly.
ReplyDeleteMaya,
ReplyDeleteToday at Homeric Vocabulary class we ended up talking about Medea and a notion similar to your "apocalyptic horsemen". Helen and Achilles were literally breed to bring about the collapse of Bronze Age civilizations;" to relieve the burden of the earth from the tribes of men" To ignite Achilles fatal wrath, Agamemnon had insult him; such behavior was in his nature. He had to sacrifice Iphigenia; to ignite the revolutions back home. It's not the first time he killed one of Clytemnestra's kids. It's in his nature. Neoptolemus had to be born to full the prophecy that someone in Aeacus' line would breach the walls. Oedipus' sons clearly suffered from ate, with what happen there. The Seven Against Thebes had to fail inorder to have the next war which would decimate the remaining population in the area and" to relieve the burden of the earth from the tribes of men" Hey that kind of put a different bent on the Peloponnesian War!
Bill