tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post6484986439081732367..comments2023-09-28T07:32:28.168-08:00Comments on Bill's Greek Mythology: TFBT: TitanophobiaAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-56450056298561826552015-02-08T11:01:02.752-09:002015-02-08T11:01:02.752-09:00Aya M,
I was reading a scholar yesterday who incl...Aya M,<br /><br />I was reading a scholar yesterday who included German and Greek quotes without translation, as if we all speak English, Greek, Latin, French, German and our native tongues. I wonder how much this has limited research my trapping it within one language, until it is famous enough to justify translation<br /><br />BillAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-36981663258483223472015-02-08T09:27:52.626-09:002015-02-08T09:27:52.626-09:00The English title Cunning Intelligence in Greek Cu...The English title <i>Cunning Intelligence in Greek Culture and Society</i> seems to me equivalent to the French <i>Les ruses de l’intelligence: La Métis des grecs</i>, so I wonder whether it is the same or almost the same work, either translated or published twice in 2 different languages to make a longer publication list. BTW, a not-my-favorite feature of classical studies is that being a serious scholar required fluency not only in ancient Greek and Latin but also in French and German.<br />You are right that Thetis is argued by these authors to possiss <i>metis</i> because of her shape-shifting ability. I would have never figured it out! I see now that the poets who describe Thetis in most detail and give her no <i>metis</i>, i.e. Homer and Apollonius of Rhodes, also do not mention her shape-shifting.Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-6759119948556409992015-02-07T20:00:13.765-09:002015-02-07T20:00:13.765-09:00Maya M,
The work that Nagy references is in Frenc...Maya M,<br /><br />The work that Nagy references is in French. Here are the footnotes in "The Power of Thetis" addressing that research " M. Detienne and J.-P. Vernant, who argue for a close connection between Thetis and Mêtis. See Detienne and Vernant’s Les ruses de l’intelligence: La Métis des grecs (Paris, 1974), 127–64, which develops a number of ideas first presented in Vernant’s “Thétis et le poème cosmogonique d’Alcman,” in Hommages à Marie Delcourt, Collection Latomus 114 (Brussels, 1970), 219–33. In various versions of their mythology, Thetis and Mêtis have associations with bonds and binding; both are sea powers; both shape-shifters; both loved by Zeus; both destined to bear a son greater than his father. Some scholars, like M. L. West, have seen the name of Thetis as defining her role in Alcman’s poem; see West’s “Three Presocratic Cosmologies,” CQ 57 (1963): 154–57; “Alcman and Pythagoras,” CQ 61 (1967): 1–7; and Early Greek Philosophy and the Orient (Oxford, 1971), 206–8. Detienne and Vernant, Métis des grecs, suggest that it is the power of metamorphosis as an attribute that disposes these goddesses of the sea to a crucial cosmological role: they “contain” the potential shapes of everything created and creatable."<br /><br />It is tempting to make Thetis a doublet of Metis based on argument by analogy, but I never bought. That same arguement would extend intelligence and cosmic significance to several other goddesses like Achilles step-grandmother Psamanthe. Achilles grandfather bedded this Nereid the same way his father bedded his mother. <br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-24807681150957141522015-02-07T14:13:42.053-09:002015-02-07T14:13:42.053-09:00I've just read a post by Kaoru at Hour 25 abou...I've just read a post by Kaoru at Hour 25 about Thetis. It contains the following quote from Nagy:<br /><br />"As Marcel Detienne and Jean-Pierre Vernant have argued most convincingly, Thetis herself is a figure of mêtis."<br /><br />This quite surprised me, for my impression of Thetis definitely does not include any <i>metis</i>. I searched for the work of these authors, it seems to be this one:<br /><br />http://www.shkaminski.com/Classes/Readings/dv.htm<br /><br />Thetis is briefly mentioned there, but I don't see any claim that she has cunning intelligence. So, in order not to be alone in my confusion, I am informing you of this :-).Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-48090115966428220672015-01-27T06:48:29.204-09:002015-01-27T06:48:29.204-09:00Thanks Maya. I corrected it.Thanks Maya. I corrected it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-48954723554617738552015-01-26T09:15:20.096-09:002015-01-26T09:15:20.096-09:00A correction to your latest quiz: at one place, yo...A correction to your latest quiz: at one place, you have written "Leto" while thinking of Leda (Helen's mother).Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-22641375385375785452015-01-22T13:53:25.172-09:002015-01-22T13:53:25.172-09:00Maya,
Rather than anthropophobia, I would say hem...Maya, <br />Rather than anthropophobia, I would say hemitheoiphobia. The biggest threat to Apollo and company was demigods. Of course at this point we all have a little chord in our veinsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-10676536731886542002015-01-20T10:45:38.288-09:002015-01-20T10:45:38.288-09:00Some mortals also seem to have had Titanophobia:
...Some mortals also seem to have had Titanophobia:<br /><br />"O Mighty Titans, who from heav'n and earth<br /> Derive your noble and illustrious birth...<br />Avert your rage, if from th' infernal seats<br /> One of your tribe should visit our retreats."<br /><br />Orphic Hymn to the Titans, http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hoo/hoo41.htm<br /><br />I am now reading a work explaining that, while Olympians are asked for boons, chthonic gods are asked just not to do harm; they arouse so much dread that humans often don't dare to call them by name, or by any logical epithet, but instead invent epithets contrary to their true nature, i.e. Eumenides or Meilichios. These days, I realized the similarity between these complimentary epithets and Allah "the merciful". I must write a post about this when I have time.<br /><br />My gods develop "anthropophobia". As humans multiply, migrate and develop civilization during the Heroic Age, Zeus initially likes this and uses the "human danger" to scare gods and keep them in full submission. However, at some point he realizes that the danger is quite real and requires counter-measures: Babelization, harsh punishment of hubristic humans such as Niobe, wars at Thebes and Troy. (The argumentation in Niobe's case: if humans are allowed to badmouth Titans, their next step will be to disobey the Olympians.) However, everything provides only temporary relief, and finally the gods decide to evacuate before humans have besieged them and cut off their escape route to the sea.Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.com