tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post5996695349080291788..comments2023-09-28T07:32:28.168-08:00Comments on Bill's Greek Mythology: TFBT: Ferry Prologue, One, and TwoAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-86445607725398705132016-09-16T21:47:03.218-08:002016-09-16T21:47:03.218-08:00I must correct myself: indeed, given Zeus' and...I must correct myself: indeed, given Zeus' and Themis' and Hera's and Athena's and Poseidon's plans, for Achilles to remain at home would be "hyper-moron". Actually, in a better world, he would never have been born. He tells his mother in Scroll 18:<br /><br />"Mother, Olympian Jove has indeed vouchsafed me the fulfilment of my prayer, but what boots it to me, seeing that my dear comrade Patroclus has fallen... I have lost him; aye, and Hector when he had killed him stripped the wondrous armour, so glorious to behold, which the gods gave to Peleus when they laid you in the couch of a mortal man. <b>Would that you were still dwelling among the immortal sea-nymphs, and that Peleus had taken to himself some mortal bride.</b> For now you shall have grief infinite by reason of the death of that son whom you can never welcome home - nay, I will not live nor go about among mankind unless Hector fall by my spear, and thus pay me for having slain Patroclus son of Menoetius."<br /><br />Emphasis mine; Achilles understands it on some level. He also realizes that "Olympian Jove" and "the gods" have started it all, though he immediately redirects his anger to Hector, a fellow victim of Zeus.<br /><br />About Aegisthus - he is portrayed in a very biased and unsympathetic light, in order to look worse than his adversaries who killed either their daughters or their mothers. Nevertheless, as a discussion at Hour25 once concluded, Clytemnestra (assisted by him) was apparently a better ruler than Penelope, who could not keep under control even her own home. <br /><br />Look at the Trojan side: Who remained? - Hector, Laocoon. Who moved? - Helenus. Who looks better?Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-55845857011837267912016-09-16T17:40:26.673-08:002016-09-16T17:40:26.673-08:00Maya M,
According to the "Cypria" and s...Maya M,<br /><br />According to the "Cypria" and several subsequent oracles Achilles was born for this moment. (Okay, so his cousins or son could have fulfilled the role.) Aegithus stayed home and we know his story<br /><br />Bill<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-78606951870890152012016-09-16T14:19:58.863-08:002016-09-16T14:19:58.863-08:00I've just read your conversation with Harlemsw...I've just read your conversation with Harlemswife. You wrote that "Phthia was NOT Achilles natural place to be. He had another destiny." I doubt it. You once wrote that nobody composed a poem about the alternative Achilles who chose to remain in Phthia. I think that maybe someone should, though such choices rarely make good plots. <br /><br />The Iliad does not go so far to say that remaining in Phthia would have been the right choice - it does not give answers. However, it does ask the questions.Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-82630322946288634072016-09-07T16:56:21.788-08:002016-09-07T16:56:21.788-08:00Maya,
I will keep reading and see where Ferry tak...Maya,<br /><br />I will keep reading and see where Ferry takes me. He started chapter three saying that Odysseus' only desire was to get home. Hmm, I recall his overwhelming desire was for "gifts". Which is why he didn't get home much sooner. <br /><br />As to Ajax versus Athena; Ajax might be a fool, but he's my kind of fool! Stay home, an unloved virgin, never to have a spouse or child, always stuck taking care of my father's household, no more than an unpaid housekeeper? I don't think so Athena!<br /><br />BillAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11216523923707900157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9097508687199514965.post-91682531284900136442016-09-07T15:29:35.797-08:002016-09-07T15:29:35.797-08:00As my scientific advisor liked to say, "They ...As my scientific advisor liked to say, "They think that you must know your place, and this place is under the linoleum".<br />I agree with Russell that the Greeks preached moderation, but in fact they were not moderate in anything, and this was why they were great.<br />Can you imagine an Achilles who knows his place? I wonder what, according to Ferry, is our natural place that we should accept.<br />In the Prometheus Bound, Oceanus tells Prometheus to "know himself", a piece of advice met with the disdain it deserves IMHO. I have modernized it (and somewhat improved it) as "Look at yourself first!". <br />You once wrote that tragedies were cautionary tales, showing what we mustn't do. At the same time, however, most viewers start to sympathize with the tragic hero at least a bit. Even when he is a jerk like Sophocles' Ajax. Whom do you prefer, Ajax or Athena?Maya Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10877457709995369246noreply@blogger.com